The limit of hardness obtainable from heat treating of the existing grades was about 67-68 Rc, but there was a desire for even higher hardness for cutting of difficult materials. the number indicated the thickness in inches. 2,174,281. Crucible Steel initially argued that higher than 3% was unnecessary and not found to be beneficial [17]; however, the continued existence of ASP60 and the development of higher vanadium high speed steels by Crucible since seem to contradict their initial arguments. It also incorporates an index-finger choil that allows a forward grip for enhanced control. From the beginning of the Super Hard High Speed Steels, it was promised that these steels could replace cemented carbide for some machining operations [12]. 66% Score of Average of Top 5: 251; closest steel is CTS-XHP at 242 He at least mentions the effect of edge geometry. [8] Gill, James P. “Ferrous alloy.” U.S. Patent No. A similar effect was found to occur with molybdenum additions as well: You can read about the mechanism by which tungsten and molybdenum lead to increased hardness in that high tempering range in this article. I’m hoping you can help with a question related to this… I’ve seen heat treating data for RWL-34 steel which exhibits secondary hardening… the instructions suggest a “Low temperature” temper (175 or 220°C) for corrosion resistance and “High Temperature” (520°C) for “Maximum Edge Sharpness”. Spyderco was one of the only companies to successfully machine, heat treat and grind this advanced alloy for use in high-performance knife blades. Communication between engineers and operators/managers is crucial, and sometimes done poorly. Interesting. And while I might rate something an “8” out of 10 while someone else gives it a “7” one might argue that it is perhaps not a meaningful difference. Lower hardness and lower wear resistance than all of them. He gives a higher edge retention score to 14C28N than 13C26 even though the steels are very similar other than corrosion resistance. With steel element explanations and steel type descriptions that are straight up wrong, plagiarism from Cold Steel (that was assigned to the wrong steel), and plagiarized ratings I can’t recommend this article at all. Steel Chart. The high cost of both purchasing these steels and producing knives out of them limits their usage to a relatively small number of knives. One of my favorites “ D2 is a very tough steel” Disadvantages: Can be relatively difficult to sharpen (compared to carbon steels and softer stainless steels). I will be criticizing their descriptions of steels and steel properties as well as the ratings that they provide. ... On the business end, a variety of premium stainless steel blades provide low-friction edge geometry, extreme toughness, and exceptional edge retention. Powder metallurgy steel was first produced on a commercial scale by Crucible Steel at the end of 1970. The predicted value for Maxamet is close to the experimental value above, however, which gives me some hope for the validity of the predictions. [21] Hellman, P., and H. Wisell. Most of these experts have read enough of each others dubious articles to know the vocabulary but not the science. They have the appearance of providing useful information but really doesn’t tell a consumer very much. [9] Gill, J. P., and Robert S. Rose. The resulting compositions of these steels are relatively complex, but in practice they are essentially the result of taking a pre-existing cobalt-alloyed high speed steel and then finding the carbon content that results in the highest hardness. the toughness of silicon alloyed steel is also higher than the cobalt alloyed steel although higher hardness !! The Maxamet steel in considered as a “Super Steel”, So it’s a High-end Alloy steel, with an uncommon chemical composition, but I can say that the closest one to it is the CPM S110V (even if it’s stainless steel), in exception of wear resistance; the Maxamet is a great match for the S110v in edge retention, hardness, wear-resistance and price range which is between 100-200 Usd. of the 6 th International Tooling Conference, Karlstad, Sweden. The Chromium likely is the element that drives the ZDP into being a stainless steel. Like all CPM steels, CPM M4 is created using Crucible’s patented Crucible Particle Metallurgy process, which provides an extremely homogeneous, stable and grindable product compared to the traditional processes. Knife Blade Materials – by KnifeCenter.com. Proven design, amazing steel 12/09/2017 By Seth Lord Always been a satisfied user of the Para 2 lineup, and this is now my favorite. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, He also says what the different elements do to a steel (oh no….) Vanadium forms a different carbide at a higher temperature range so it can help to maintain hardness at higher temperatures. I think you have encountered “Fake Science”. Stainless steels cannot be said to be “stronger” in any kind of general way. Except for “initial sharpness” which is not a steel property. Never used, let alone tested, put in print, so someone https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/isijinternational/46/5/46_5_782/_pdf/-char/en, https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fu-Sheng_Pan/publication/226290568_Carbides_in_high-speed_steels_containing_silicon/links/00b7d520356e23d9e5000000.pdf. Guide to the Best Knife Steel – KnifeInformer.com. So it was a good upgrade overall due to decreased cost and improved properties. I won’t say that every single rating is wrong in these articles. Both elements are used to increase hardness and toughness. Another point where it looks like more information is being provided to the reader but may or may not be useful is the inclusion of a property like “wear resistance.” The effect of wear resistance on edge retention or ease of sharpening is nowhere defined in the article so it mostly serves to pad out the chart. These steels offer relatively low toughness when compared with many other knife steels, but offer excellent edge retention. The datasheet for ZDP-189 shows that it has very low toughness [2]. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. For example, M35 is M2 with a cobalt addition, and M33 and M34 are essentially M1 with a cobalt addition. There is no doubt this is one of the best super-steels available, but there are always trade-offs and quite a few people out here think Maxamet is the Superman of steels but it really is more of a Phil Heath or Magnus Magnussen. 2 (1978): 114-123. He next lists the effect of different elements which as I explained above I’m not a big fan of. CPM-S110V. Grinding and finishing is also difficult, even in the annealed condition because of the high vanadium content. However, there are still easy things to point out in most of these, first here are the ratings themselves: 1050 gets a “1” for corrosion resistance while 1075 and 1060 get a “0” which he says is “because of the lower carbon content,” which wouldn’t make any difference in a steel with no chromium. Where would Rex 45 fit into these steels?? An ambidextrous, tip-up wire silhouette pocket clip and screw-together handle construction make the folder user friendly with several and carry options. but does link to an article that does (boo!). This expression of the Para 3 combines all the defining qualities of this best-in-class folding knife design with the extreme edge retention and toughness of Maxamet blade steel. Obtaining them in good sizes for knives can also be somewhat difficult since they are primarily produced for tooling rather than knives. Maybe. A high performance tool steel which excels at toughness and arguably holds and edge better than any other carbon steel. [18] Steven, G. “Vanadium-containing tool steel article.” U.S. Patent 3,809,541, issued May 7, 1974. I have written several articles now on the history of tool steels and high speed steels. ASP60 combined 6.5% vanadium along with high carbon and cobalt for high wear resistance and hardness. ... Carpenter produces this powder steel. Probably. With all of these incomprehensible designations like 20CV, M390, 204P, XHP, S30V, etc. This is somewhat surprising because of the deleterious effect of cobalt on toughness. The addition of large amounts of tungsten led to “secondary hardening” in tempering meaning that the hardness increased at high tempering temperatures, around 900-1100°F (480-650°C) rather than the typical softening. There are some ratings that I don’t disagree with but a novice can’t tell which are questionable. “1095 – When quenched, it produces a near saturated lathe Martensite with no excess carbides; avoiding the brittleness associated with higher carbon materials. [15] Mackay, William BF, and Robert O. Carson. “The goal with this specific model, and a number of USA-made designs, is to offer a grand ‘bang-for-the buck,’” Glesser explains. I wrote about what cemented carbide is in this article about Sandrin knives. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. Selon nous, l'acier 8Cr13MoV est la meilleure option lorsque vous avez un budget serré. Stainless Steel, Special Steel, Compressor Blading, Turbine Blading, Superalloy Supplier. And defining ductility as “ability to flex or bend without fracturing” is misleading. He says that, “during forging, Cr and Mo form hard, double-carbide, bonds which help to improve hardenability, wear resistance, and corrosion resistance.” I don’t know what double carbide bonds are but I know that carbides are not a positive for corrosion resistance. TWISTED SISAL MERCH - THANKS TO MISHEARDKNIFEREVIEWS: https://teespring.com/twisted-sisal-merch Remember to subscribe for more lunacy - hit the bell etc! I confirmed with Matt Davidson from Knife Informer that he did not give permission for his ratings to be used. The exception is D2 which gets a relatively high edge retention score (higher than S30V) despite a low wear resistance rating of 4 (compared to 6 for S30V). The metallurgy of these types of steels is also interesting. Your email address will not be published. The development of super hard and carbide replacement high speed steels came from a long history of continuous improvement in high speed steel design and production. There was a rumor about a new Maxamet PM2 release this year. Alloy is high on Cobalt and Vanadium. However, the use of PM technology allowed an increase in vanadium content. They are especially critical in survival situations. Those alloying elements lead to the precipitation of very tiny carbides that increase hardness in the high temperature tempering range. Купити Ніж Spyderco Manix 2 Maxamet Steel (C101PGY2) 871320 в інтернет-магазині ІБІС - найкраща ціна в Україні - 6530 грн. So not only is the information on lathe (sic) martensite, “no excess carbides,” and “legendary toughness” plagiarized but it’s also about the wrong steel. [20] Carnes, Robert E., and David E. Wert. Additionally, I would be doing my readers a disservice by not sending them your way if they want to do further reading on the science of steel! 440A and 7Cr17, despite being the same thing, get very different ratings, particularly in corrosion resistance where 440A is given a “7” and 7Cr17 is given a “3”. Nothing about 420HC makes it less tough or corrosion resistant than 440C. There are a few reasons: Update 6/20/2019: While I haven’t made a steel rating article, I did write an article about how to choose steels, and provided recommendations for the best steels within certain categories. The ratings above are perhaps the best of those analyzed so far though he was helped by the fact that he did not rate toughness; that is a “tough” one to rate using commonly available information. While it is similar in composition to 440C, it neither withstands impact as well nor, does it take and hold as fine an edge and, it is not as corrosion resistant.”. I’m not sure that has much to do with wear resistance. Nice article! I normally want to know a little more about a person that calls himself THE pocket knife guy. Here is an article about how chipping of edges happens to understand the mechanisms that occur and so how we evaluate different steels based on those mechanisms. Maybe blade geometry? Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Amer. So the ratings that are generated by those writing these articles are basing them on their own experience, the reputation of each steel, what limited information is available from the steel manufacturers, and how they feel that morning. Maxamet is made by Carpenter Technology, a company best known among steel snobs for its CTS-XHP, which made appearances on the Spyderco Techno, Slysz Bowie, and Chaparral among others. there is a wide belief that reaching highest hardness without vanadium is impossible . Looking forward to reading the updated version. Top. The high toughness steels 5160, 15N20, L6, and 8670 barely have any carbide at all: 5160 (1525°F) I used the method described in this article to estimate the relative CATRA edge retention for each of these steels based on their carbide volume from Thermo-Calc. I had to read that second sentence a couple times before I figured out what he was saying but I have to disagree. Very useful article and surprisingly accurate CATRA in most cases mentioned. Thanks Dan. The answer is that S110V doesn’t get harder than 1075 because it has to do with how much carbon is in solution during the high temperature hardening/austenitizing treatment and must be balanced with all of the other elements in the steel. [14] Hamaker, Jr John C., James R. Handyside, and Daniel H. Yates. I would say if it’s not broken it remains usable. Thanks! 6 recipes are given in all (4 low, 2 high) with a range of final hardnesses, soit’s not just a matter of assuming high hardness = high sharpness. On the other hand, the Maxamet has only 4.75% Chromium, while the ZDP has 20%. [22] 中村秀樹, 清永欣吾, and 山根康史. “Ultra hard high speed steel.” U.S. Patent 3,259,489, issued July 5, 1966. I’m not sure why M390 has such a good reputation for toughness. I’m not sure where the hardness ratings came from as most of these steels can be heat treated to a wide range of hardness values. Now for the actual ratings which I assume is what most people are looking for when they click on one of these articles. Interesting. Maxamet is hard and tough enough to meet the demands of rolling and shaping hot steel. In high speed steels Si behaves a bit differently than in the somewhat lower alloy steels in that article, however. The toughness of M42 was also pretty good, comparable with other high speed steels when at the same hardness, and does not drop dramatically in the 68+ hardness range. I’m planning to make a gyuto out of HSS, but can’t decide between the selection that’s available. Must be the effective “3rd Generation Microclean” advertising. I assist on multiple “beginner bladesmithing” groups, and these charts are constantly floating around. I’ve added and subtracted to it over the years to try and make it a decent resource, but at the end of the day I’m just a layperson and a single data point. T15 appeared by 1946 as Vasco Supreme [10], and M15 appeared by 1951 as Vasco Supreme A [11]. It really isn’t, as Maxamet is a high speed steel designed to be a carbide replacement for better toughness but retaining much of the hot hardness, and is not stainless. The primary difference is out-of-this-world edge retention at the cost of a minimal reduction in toughness. “Elmax – A third generation Austrian, powder-metal stainless steel that is noted for its fine carbide distribution with extremely low inclusion content.”, “O-1 is an ideal steel for edged weapons and tools because it is known for its ability to be differentially heat treated.”. 1. This article is written by someone known only as “Huston” and he is quite confident in his article if the title is any indication. To further distinguish it, its textured G-10 scales are a distinctive dark gray color. This blade steel exhibits good toughness, but it does not meet the level of M390. Made in the USA. I prefer to learn and educate. Huston begins his article with a relatively meaningless introduction that seems to be for the purpose of linking to his other articles on which knives to buy: “Knives are one of the most versatile tools that someone can have on their person for any day-to-day projects. Top Rated Plus. Grindability was an important consideration because of the difficulty of grinding such hard steels. This led to patents on high vanadium high speed steels in 1938 [7] and 1939 [8]. Chuck, Your email address will not be published. [11] Automotive Industries 105 (1951): 158. This steel is particularly well suited to applications where strength and impact resistance are valued above all other considerations and will produce blades of nearly legendary toughness.”. Trans Tech Publications, 2007. Also, a person new to steel terms doesn’t know what having “fine grains” means in a knife. He starts the article with some meaningless stuff about our destiny and the iron age and promises “answers to all of your questions about the best knife steel!”, He gives some strange explanations for the microstructure of steel: “When steel is viewed at a high magnification, it becomes obvious that it has a grain structure similar to grains of sand. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Thanks to Roberto J. Rodriguez and J. Kelley for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! This Para Military 2 features all the characteristics of the best-selling standard model, plus the supercharged edge holding and toughness of a Maxamet blade. “Toughness – How much energy the blade can absorb before fracturing. 1 year ago. He also says what the different elements do to a steel (oh no….) I don’t want to have ratings with no accompanying explanation for how the scores were determined. Spyderco’s twenty-fourth Mule Team installment features Carpenter® steel's Micro-Melt® Maxamet® alloy—a super-hard high-speed powdered tool steel possessing properties that transcend conventional high-speed tool steels approach those of cemented carbides, the ultra-hard materials used to machine other steels. After hardening those operations are even more challenging as would be expected from the high hardness. The original patent was for 8% Mo high speed steels, but after the popularity of M2 steel it was modified to be a Mo-W steel and became M4 by 1941 [9]. The Native 5 features a patterned FRN handle with two separate finger choils. Thanks! Because the chart is small and has few steels there isn’t much to criticize. Most of the time, that question is answered with “everything.”. Therefore, super hard high speed steels could be developed with powder metallurgy technology which also utilized increased vanadium content for a combination of both high hardness and high wear resistance. The Ultimate Guide to Choosing the Best Knife Steel for Top Blades – TrekWarrior.com. If you frequently use your knife to slice up cardboard, there may not be a better steel than CPM-S110V. [23] Wojcieszynski, Andrzej L., and William Stasko. The smaller the crystals are, the tougher and stronger the steel with be, and the better it will hold an edge. You can get secondary hardening without V or even without Mo/W but the most dramatic secondary hardening is seen with Mo/W. At long last… i have gotten tired of saying “this just ain’t so” at people quoting these articles as the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth… And obviously I can’t do such a thorough job of it…, It’s a complicated subject matter and challenging to boil down for newbies while also appeasing the nerds . cobalt is not just very expensive , it is also known for its carcinogenic effect in presence of tungsten & all cobalt alloyed steels contain tungsten ! 26 Sep. 1939. After all, they are designed to be heat treated to at least 67 Rc. I did some sleuthing and found that the Knife Informer article was online first. The full-flat-ground blade includes a fully accessible Trademark Round Hole for swift, ambidextrous, one-handed opening. He has some very pretty charts summarizing the ratings of all of the steels, which I have reproduced below: If you compare the ratings above with those from the Knife Informer ratings you will notice that they are nearly identical. However, he also says that, “Many people report that they are able to get knives using steels that contain vanadium such as CPM S30V sharper than they can non-Vanadium steels such as ATS-34.” I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone report that before, as the hard vanadium carbides typically make sharpening more difficult. If anyone has any information on the Maxamet rockwell on Spyderco knives it would be appreciated. O1 is not well known for being differentially heat treated, as it has relatively high “hardenability” which is a measure of how quickly it has to be quenched to achieve full hardness. To further distinguish it, its textured G10 scales are a distinctive dark gray color. I agree. In defining wear resistance he says that “the amount, type and, distribution of carbides within the steel are what determines its wear resistance,” which I point out because it is a true statement that I found. Prioritize toughness for rigid prints. 43. There is no reason I know of to expect better sharpness with a high temper. These tests showed the expected superior toughness of Maxamet, though the difference is not much to write home about. S110V gets only a “6” for corrosion resistance despite the steel being designed for high corrosion resistance. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Maxamet is a high carbide volume steel, ~22% Les aciers les plus populaires de cette catégorie sont les suivants : CPM S35VN, VG10, CPM S30V, Böhler M390, Böhler N690 et bien plus. Maxamet blade version of the Native 5 with gray FRN handle. He also defines toughness but does not rate toughness of any of the steels. The available datasheets from the steel manufacturers are often missing information on specific toughness, wear resistance, or corrosion resistance tests and when they do have them the tests are typically not comparable between the manufacturers. Next the descriptions of steels are taken directly from Buck Knives and Cold Steel. Mo and W form the same kind of carbide on tempering so you can have one or the other or a combination of the two. Too much toughness can lead to a blade easily warped.”. Made in the USA. “420HC is a somewhat less expensive American-made stainless alternative to 440C. In an alloy, Tungsten contributes to the harden-ability, and with this much Tungsten it’s no surprise that Spyderco hardened Maxamet up to 67-68 RC. At these elevated temperatures, alloying elements are able to move around in the steel, or diffuse. 440A gets a very average corrosion resistance rating of 5.5 despite its very good corrosion resistance. There are different steels for different purposes but I don’t like to think of steels in those terms.
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